ACDF recovery time

[Bad Boy Bad Boy]

TPM, please visit the off topic area today...

[Cycler]

"Then give me the results...."

Every state WC system already has all that data and it is mined often by the payors, hence the delays. When placed into the context of the " Fusions are performed too often and without any scientific rationale camp " of Deyo et al, there is little reason to ever undergo one let alone two fusion surgeries. The payors know this and thier consultant Drs know this and wish to not pay for something that will not work and likely will do more to cause disability than had it been left alone. No wonder the SPine surgeons and Pain clinic Dr.s do everything possible to discredit Deyo and his camp of primary care researchers with no axe to grind and no money making procedure to offer, just interested in what is the best patient care based on what medicine really knows, not just is able to sell.

In other words, if you take the facts and eliminate the hype and the various treatment franchises ( what all the various Drs actually are really doing is selling a product with little to no track record of effectivness whether fusions of injections or accupuncture or injections) AND you were in charge of making the call concerning IWs I doubt you would choose to act any different than what is often railed against by patients. Access to care in chronic pain is not necessarily a good thing despite what the patient wants or thinks he needs according to published studies such as you suggest.

Having said that there are two local men in the next town over who are twins and wok in a car assembly plant. Both are middle aged, and both have undergone two multi-level fusions and both are back to work, i pain and with limitations but back to work within 16 weeks of the 2nd multi-level fusion. For what it's worth.`

[tpm]

"i pain and with limitations but back to work within 16 weeks"

If I could be awarded to go back to work with limitations I would have done so my first time around and this time around when ready. Unfortunately not all job classifications have "limited" work programs.

[Bad Boy Bad Boy]

Cycler, let me say your thread shallow water now with that last one.

See, I under went, 6 full months of everything in this world to not have a surgery. Pay attention now. I hadn't slept but maybe 45 minutes at any single time during that period because of the pain.

I went and had the 3 level fusion performed. I left the hospital the very next morning a new man, no pain, and felt like a million dollars. 6 Months later I did return to work, full duty, zero restrictions. Heavy Duty work might I say. I had not one single pain, and I was off medications. I worked with no problems, till 1 year after my return to work, a person played a prank on me that resulted in my career ending. I know quite a few people with Fusions, and all are back to work. The study is false.

[MJC]

Bad Boy,
That is my point exactly and you are a good example. It just depends on each person and how their body will react to this type of surgery. All the studies in the world cannot predict the outcome based on studies as no one individual is the same.

Congratulations to you on the great progress you have made with your knee replacement. Your ROM is remarkable.......good job as I know you had to work hard in PT to get to the point where you are at with your ROM. My prayers for you are that you continue to progress well and can be a success story for the study you are taking part in. It seems all you hear in reports of studies are the negative aspects of procedures and studies. I'm happy that you have the possibility of proving something positive.

No individual wants a surgery just for the sake of having it or the possibility of increasing their disability status. What a person does want is to feel better and have the hopes that whatever surgery they are headed for that the outcome will be a positive one. I myself have had positive results from all the surgeries I have had since my injury, it's just crap continues to happen and here I sit again.

One day I will feel better, I just know it. When and how long from now I just don't know but I try to have a positive outlook. God Bless you.

Cajun Hugsssssssss,
MJC

[Bad Boy Bad Boy]

Cycler

(I pain and with limitations but back to work within 16 weeks of the 2nd multi-level fusion. For what it's worth)

You don't even know that I am very happy that you did return to work. In fact, it makes me proud to hear you could.

I was left with a lot of damage cycler. I now live in pain 24 x 7. I have reduced my medications, through my doctors help. Because I did't want to live on them. But, trust me, to have a medication now and then for a short relief is like heaven these days. Not only did I have the Cervical fusions done. I'm fused from C3 to T1, damged nerves, mostly noted Sensory Nerve C8 Hand and forearm are numb. I was told I would need to retrain to use my left hand after that. Instead, I trained myself, to use my mind, and my eyes to make the right hand work for me. Through my Doctor's and Neurosurgeon, teaching me, I was allowed to learn things of the spine that many would never ever begin to even think about in a life time. I self taught Laws and Rules of Work Comp and Labor Laws and Rules. so I could help others, and if ever myself. When it came to effort and staying positive through my medical, it was my treating doctor that helpped me keep my head on straight. In fact, because I had so much lack of sleep, he would send his Nurse into PT while I was on the table, give me a shot, and knock me out for a few hours, so I could get some sleep. I in returned for all the help that these people done for me, I made a commitment to help others. Being positive, and letting go of the hate and anger will help a person, any person heal better. I also have a lumbar problem from a work injury, L1 and L2, no surgery. yet I deal with it the best I can. Then I had to have a knee replaced that I was forced to wait 15 years for. ( I can tell you about working in pain my friend.)

Cycler, what type work did you do when injured and what type you do now? If I may ask that is?

[Still in Limbo]

MJC, Thank You for Your Contribution to this Thread, and I Agree with You Totally! My Microdiscectomy/Laminectomy at L5/S1 was a Complete Success, My Surgeon did Not One Thing Wrong, the MRI did not Show the Severity of My Herniation, My S1 Nerve Root was Crushed, and in the Complete Surgery Transcript I have, it was Noted Very Clearly. My Body was My Enemy, I had never had Surgery Before, and My Back Filled with Scar Tissue where the Half of the Disc was taken from My Spine, Encapsulated the S1 Nerve Root while it was Still Crushed, and here I set with this Pain, and Totally Disabled, and Dealing with Meds. and Chronic Pain! A Perfect Example of Peoples Bodies doing Different things, and how Some Heal Quickly, and Some such as Myself never Heal Correctly. I wanted Back to Work so Bad I saw a Total of 9 (both Ortho. and Neuro.) Surgeons for a Surgery to Remove the Scar Tissue, and to No Avail, the Surgery is too Dangerous to do, I could Lose the Use of My Right Leg all Together, and Possibly even the Leg. My PM Dr. has Written in Red Across all 3 of My Medical Folders, (Each Weighing about 5lbs.) "NO SURGERY UNLESS A LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION"! Now I'm Sure there have been Countless Surgeries such as Mine have been Perfect, and Folks are Back to Work, but Unfortunately that is not the Case for Me. SSDI and My PM Dr., along with a w/c Judge has Me Deemed Totally Disabled, and My Employer and the Ins. Co. Continue to Fight Me, Why, because they know I'm done, and they don't want to Enter Settlement Negotiations they KNOW will Cost them a lot of Money, due to My Age. They would Rather I get Hit by a Truck, or One of there I Swear 15 last PI's would catch Me doing Something I can't do. 12 Hearings, going on 5 Years, and not One Photo or One Minute of Video. And while All of this is going On I have to Live on a Pittance of Money, and try and Survive!! So I Agree, I don't know of ANYONE that would want to Make Their Cases Longer, or Disable themselves any Further!!!

[Bad Boy Bad Boy]

Cycler

I have read some Dr. R. Deyo work. Oh, I understand he is a so called Expert for the Work Comp Insurance companies too. I also know this guy is nuts, a real quack if you ask me, and I don't think I would want his treatment. Even his proposal to the US Congress got shot down real fast and quick. He has a goal, to have the Insurance Carriers regulate how a persons Low Back Pain should be treated, instead of allowing the MD to perform what is properly needed to treat a patient injured on the job. He feels in his mind, no person, should be treated with any thing more then simple asprin for the first 4 weeks after an injury.

Come on get real. You read this guys crap.

[Cycler]

I think we will have to agree to disagree about Dr. Deyo. I find his writings, statistics and papers compelling evidence and damning of what is being sold to patients in pain, all more or less in line with Weinstein's SPORT study when it comes to fusions absent significant slippage or listhesis and that's the best study to date.

If you were referring to Deyo's writings as crap I'd caution you that he's pretty much in line with Nachmeson's and Kirkaldy-Willis' last papers and writings and I don't know how you can trump those two's 50 years spine research leadership.

[Still in Limbo]

Bad Boy, have You Ever Noticed when Asked of Cycler Their Injuries and Line of Work, it's Totally Ignored by them?? I have Asked that Question Myself Quite a few Times, to No Avail. Makes You Wonder, when Someone Enters this w/c Community Forum on the Assumption they want to Help and Guide Injured Workers why they would be So Evasive of any Info. Asked of them when it Comes to Their Injury, or even something as Simple as Their Line of Work? I find it Very Hard Personally to Take Much of what is Said as anymore than Net Surfing and Copy and Paste Info., and if that's the Case, why even be Here? Just as an Example: We know Very Little of 1171, and that's O.K., because We do Know that at One Point in Time, Maybe even now, 1171 was/is an Adjuster. That Lends Credence for Me that 1171 has the Knowledge to Reply and Help, and even though We haven't seen eye to Eye on Many Issues, I do Respect Their Replies. Just a Thought, One I've had for a While, I guess I am just getting Tired of the way Cycler has to Divert away from the Questions at Hand by Turning the Reply in a Different Direction, as was just Done on the Last Reply from Them. I have been Noticing this for a While now!!